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Thursday, June 16, 2005 

A good feeling

Watching the Conyers hearings today, I couldn't help getting pumped up. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but it just seems like this thing has finally achieved critical mass. The panel was terrific:

Joe Wilson provided a detailed breakdown of the Niger uranium claim, probably the best single example of the administration's misuse of intelligence and utter disregard for the truth.

Cindy Sheehan put a human face on the issue with her incredibly moving testimony about her son who was killed in action in Iraq.

Ray McGovern delivered a scathing indictment of the Bush administration's corruption of our intelligence agencies, pointing in particular to Cheney's numerous "visits" to the CIA. Anyone who has ever worked under a domineering boss could relate.

John Bonifaz provided a legal framework for understanding what the DSM shows and that, even as things stand today, it represents more than adequate grounds for a Resolution of Inquiry so the House can begin hearings into whether the administration lied to Congress and the American people.

But what was most encouraging was the number of US Representatives who took the time to attend and participate in the hearing, even if only between votes taking place upstairs. The tiny room was packed (a much larger room was available, but the House leadership wouldn't let Conyers use it). There were half a dozen TV cameras and journalists craned their necks to get a view of people speaking.

Just for kicks I checked our site stats as the hearing progressed--we were getting almost one visit every second, and at 27,000 for the day we're already well above our average. But these numbers don't mean nearly as much as the 540,000 signature Conyers got on his letter, or the 122 reps who have now signed on as well.

As Congressman Conyers said in his closing, this is only the beginning of our work. Much more remains to be done. But right now, I feel better about our prospects for getting it done than I have, well, ever.

 posted by ukiyo1  # 5:52 PM  
Comments:
I watched some of the hearing earlier, (thank you c-span online), and actually felt hopeful about the state of this situation (the war, the president, the bullshit) for the first time in a while. Thanks so much to everyone who is making this happen
 
We all need to write conyers and thank him for his work and encourage him to continue!
 
I was glued to the computer (c-span3) and watched the entire meeting. It confirmed everything I believed to be the truth. I am indeed very grateful to cspan for the streaming. I think this day will be the beginning of the end of the Bush/Cheney bondage on this country. Thank you to Rep. Conyers and the panelists for making this day possible. I wonder how many people watched the meeing today via television & computer.
 
Trouble is:
Neither NBC Nightly News nor CBS Evening News carried a word about it. ABC was covering basketball. I saw nothing on CNN Newsnight. CNN Headling News zero during its news breaks. I got tired of waiting to see if Hardball was carrying any summary (apparently not) and Lou Dobbs also took a powder. So the media still refuses!
 
We're doomed, the country is been lead by an idiot on a string. The next step is to draft people going to prison or about to do prison time.

More lies will follow and our country will most likely fall into civil war if these bastards in Cong. do not do anything. The enemy is in control of our country, its Blue verses Red state now in America....TO ARMS TO ARMS....

PARODY
 
Love anonymous' line about the country being "lead [sic] by an idiot." In case you missed the irony, "lead" is a heavy metal, like anonymous' brain. "Led" is the state of anonymous' so-called thoughts.

Incidentally, did anyone happen to notice that the memo also confirms the existence of WMD, at least in the belief of its writer and all others present at the meeting? Who's lying?

Speaking of irony, how about a group of like-minded individuals who state for all the world to hear their intention to bring down a duly elected president and then look for any shred of an excuse to do it. Abu Ghraib, Downing street, Gitmo, .. This is what I call "intelligence and facts... being fixed around the policy."

Come up with some ideas beyond "hating" and maybe you can win an election sometime.
 
Poor old thirstyhart. He is really worried about the idea of 'bringing down a duly elected president', isn't he? I thought one of the things that the Pilgrim Fathers left England to avoid was the idea that 'duly inheriting' kings had a Divine Right of untouchability, and that it was sacrilegious to criticise them. An election is not a coronation. In our democracy it is our right to criticise and hold to account ALL our elected officials, from dog-catcher to president. Indeed it is our duty, and the higher the office the more energetically we need to exercise it.

Is it not the case, thirstyhart, that by and large, and on the whole, the Downing Street memorandum, if true (and it looks like it is) substantiates major and serious criticisms that have been made of the way the Bush administration led us into war? If your answer is yes, then why are you so upset by this website? If no, please tell us what WOULD count for you as evidence supporting the case made by Bush's critics? A signed confession by Dubbya himself, perhaps? Or are you just so politically committed that nothing could change your mind?
 
Or maybe Thirstyhart thinks wmd were being concealed by "king" george's zipper, that is IF he uses a zipper (definition please!) and doesn't button down(ing)

anyone have a roadmap??
 
War criminals all. Impeach the lot of them!
 
The executive branch of this government has become far, far too powerful. We have to hope that the Congress will increasingly reassert itself and bring back the balance of power to the people.
 
Anonymous seems to think I was upset. Not really; nor worried. Just thought you could all use a bit of balance.

You really don't know the difference between "duly elected" and "duly inherited"? It's called democracy; look it up.

The point I was trying to make was that the same people who on November 23rd were promising an impeachment because they couldn't stand the thought that a majority of voters disagreed with them have been grasping at any available straw since. Ironically, the current straw is the [accusation] that President Bush decided what he wanted to do and then went looking for justification.

Do you get it? To simplify: Compare "We want George gone -- let's find an excuse," to "We want Saddam gone -- let's find an excuse."

As for the DSM, whether it makes a case for criticism depends on what your criticism is. If you're still in the "Bush lied!" camp, then no, it doesn't. It shows what people who pay attention have been saying all along -- that everyone believed Saddam had WMD (still not disproven -- please look at ALL the evidence) and it was pretty obvious that the "Undesirable Nancyboys" were incapable of or uwilling to do anything about it. If all this is a surprise to you, then perhaps you should consider backing away from your pretense of political savvy and submit to being "lead" by someone who can spell the word.


BTW... Elf? Ever heard of UOPHX?
 
While I fully support what Rep. Conyers et al is doing, I think I am missing something...

If GWB is impeached, how are we in a better situation?? Cheney takes over and he is more dangerous! I mean, lil Georgie couldn't even go to the 9/11 hearings by himself; he needed Cheney to hold his hand.
 
yeah John Conyers is really solid example of a good congressman with complete credibility...you guys are so stupid it's embarrassing...
 
thirstyhart said everyone believed Saddam had WMD. People who have been paying attention all along, and who have an attention span of longer than three days, will recall that we were not told that we were going to invade Iraq because they possessed WMD, but because they were supposedly going to use them. The US attacking Iraq just because they possessed WMD would have been no more legitimate than if I killed my neighbors simply because they possessed a hunting rifle. Even if my neighbors had killed others with their rifle in the past. Even if they were not allowed to legally own a firearm. It would only be legitimate if I was actively being threatened at the time. That is the point here.
 
The fact is Saddam lost the 1991 Gulf War and as part of the settlement he agreed not to possess weapons of mass destruction and to allow that to be verifed. So, if he did possess them, he was in violation and should have been slapped down justifiably. Thirstyhart is apparently the only one in command of the facts and circumstances on this liberal apologist blog...
 
Yes, if Saddam possessed weapons of mass destruction, then he was in violation, and should have been slapped down. But there is no proof that he did (other than some missiles which were certainly no danger to the US). And he would have been in violation of an agreement with the UN, not with the US.

By the way, I am a moderate Republican, certainly not a "liberal apologist". I believe in less federal government, a balanced budget, and all those other nice conservative values that were thrown by the wayside as soon as Bush won in 2000. Name-calling those who disagree with you is quite juvenile and lowers the tone of your post.
 
Our Arab allay--Saudi Arabia. Who did George kiss at his Texas ranch with full TV coverage. What was the nationality of those who flew the planes into the world trade center. What families were realesed to go home without questioning the day after that disaster. What is the linch-pin to our preemptive wars. Who benefits most from this. Yes, I am a bit paranoid, but this seems like a sinister step toward world domination, allegedly God endowed, a plan that can accept any dastardly act as justified, since we fight evil. May God help Mr. Conyers and our troops. I am afraid the cave is too deep for the light of truth ever to shine in!!!! But we must try!
Tom Lucas, M.D.
 
Sorry, thirstyhart, what criticism of Bush does the Downing Street Memo support, in your view? You seemed on the point of saying, but then slipped aside into irrelevant epithets.

I think the other anonymous that you tried to squash by patronising him/her ("democracy ... look it up") was simply saying that any democratically elected official (as opposed to a monarch with Divine Right) must always be subject to criticism. That's OK, isn't it?

The worrying thing about Bush's supporters on this issue is that they seem reluctant to respond to the substance of the criticism (that Bush deliberately misrepresented his war policy to the American people and to the world), and instead resort to questioning the motives of Bush's critics. That might suggest that they feel the strength of the case that is being made.
 
please post a visable url to the web recast of the hearings.
 
Here you go-

C-SPAN, go to Recent Programs — House Judiciary Cmte. Democrats Meeting on Downing Street Memo and Iraq War (06/16/2005)
 
No, anon (2:54pm), I should be the one apologizing.

First, because in answer to your question, the DSM doesn't support any criticism of President Bush, in my view. I could point out much better sources of criticism, but I don't really feel like helping that much.

Second, because the "irrelevant epithet" to which I assume you're referring was supposed to be a clever reinterpretation of the initials "UN", but it came out pretty lame. "Un-effectual Nancyboys" would have been more relevant, but was simply too linguistically inelegant.

Third, because the substance of the criticism does not impress me as valid or honest. I understood that the reason we ousted Saddam was because we promised him we would if he continued to flaut the UN resolutions. Therefore I find it incredible that Conyers, et al are really acting from any motive other than a wish to set aside the will of the voters -- hence, my emphasis on the fact of the President having been "duly elected."

The worrying thing about Conyers' supporters on this issue is that they seem reluctant to admit that their confusion about the reasons for the invasion of Iraq proceeds from within, not from without.
 
My fathers, yes my fathers, told me these things in a dream tonight:
I listened well and here repeat this poem for the benefit of all.

Please heed, our children,
What we say is what we mean;
For as you are the children of our future
So we are the children of our father’s dreams,

And from those dreams, afar proven
A great nation rises, of mettle and skill
Through time, to ensure that when all else fades,
These principles we here speak,
Abound forever will

Tread not upon your kinsmen and mark words here,
Spoken well to guide your dream,
To give vent to anger and disregard so deep
That you rank and rot in our esteem

Our children, in forbearance we ask that amongst all mankind,
You, this jewel so prized and given by our giving
That through eternity, the echoes of your greatness
And the luster of your progress lingers,
To join with what next God brings.

Their words continue
“It is inescapable that we, the framers of the Constitution have given such great consideration to the language, tenor and intent of our words and the future of these words, to ensure that they be used for all posterity, as they document the precepts, practice and responsibilities expected of all who perform within its context, use its principles, or benefit from its protections. “That’s what we still mean”.

“My two cents”
This Constitution’s essence which is the foundation of our existence, nationality and humanity, impressed on our hearts and very beings from childhood and articulated in the legacy left in our care in this perennial living document, has led many of our men and women in uniform to gallantly offer sacrifice of life, limb and sanity to preserve, among other things, our fundamental freedom to speak freely (like this) and, of course in this case, heralds the responsibility of our elected leaders and representatives to respond to our right to truthful accountability; Especially in light of revelations contained in recent British Government “Secret” Cabinet minutes now universally available and a groundswell of perception that a game has been and still is, afoot.. This is not a partisan issue, as some are wont to imply, but as we continue to see, one which affects mainstream Americans and their families, more so the families whose bloodlines have been severed or jeopardized, loved ones killed and therefore eternally sacrificed so that so called “Privileged” progeny continue to exist. Not to mention “Collateral Damage”. What the hell is that? Now there’s an appropriate term. What else could be in the woodwork?
For those who have the responsibility of the carnage (and you know who you are); don’t hide from this behind spurious misdirections and the circumlocutious antics of others. Speak up be men or women (or politically correct), persons or whatever.
One cannot say it is so or it is not so with a _ _ _ _-eating grin and it becomes fact. One cannot express lofty principled words while thoughts abide in the dustbin, (trashcan for those of you who don’t know what a dustbin is). The last time I looked, only God said “Let it be so” and it was so. This is “political capital” available only to HIM. Based on the performers, performances and their history of profane, bellicose agendeering, our values present us with a paradox; Is it Real or is it Memorex? Maybe we’ll never know in our lifetime as in famous Shakespearean text; “The evil that men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones”. Who are we to judge what history will inevitably reveal.
Thinking of God, our Constitution and its protections and principles I reiterate, am mindful of and sincerely thank our brave servicemen and servicewomen and those who continue to be in harms way and pray for their safe return.

“Soliloquy”
I appreciate that there are so many important things going on at the same time, juggling so many balls in the air and having to do it with only one hand (the one shown) and yet one finds the time to spend $$$ WOW. How much? Billions? BBBut that’s with a “B”. And on WHOM? To do WHAT? Could we please make that “B” stand for “B”reakfast, to feed the needy here at home, “B”homeless, to provide meaningful help to families (including children) who are displaced and fragile, “B”help for Military families in distress, “B”ed rest for our weary troops and “B”ody Armor so they don’t come home in “B”ody “B”ags, How much did you say a “B”unker “B”uster costs? There’s that damn “B” word again and the list just goes on. Like the “B”lasted price of gas and the needed “B”loody cheaper medicines and Healthcare for families and the elderly and do not forget our aging population whose expectations for Social Security appear to be fading into the “B”illowing dust raised by a desert war. I say use the “B” to BRING THE DAMN THING TO AN END.

Maybe some of the captured money alleged by CNN and other Media presenters to be contained in the Stainless Steel Cans full of US Money shown during the “Virtual War” being loaded into several 40 foot containers, can accomplish the “Bs” and offset some of this expenditure?
Does anybody know where that is? Since its our war I thought we’d ask.

“Our Last Word”
“Oh! By the bye, when we wrote this document we never said; we the stupid people”

“What we meant for all eternity is; God bless America”
 
Kudos to Rep. John Conyers and the panel members (Joe Wilson, Cindy Sheehan, Ray McGovern and John Bonifax) and all of the other members of the House who were present at Thursday's Downing Street Memo meeting. Thank you for your voice, courage and your patriotism.

To quote from Rep. Nita Lowey (D-NY) "We are meeting in this little room in the basement of the Capitol because those who are in charge of the Congress are participating in a cover-up".

This story continues to grow and it is exposing the lies of the Bush Administration. The Repugs are getting kind of nervous!

Keep up the pressure. Keep up the great work!
 
Never use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.
 
It is likely that Congress would not have voted to approve the president's authority to go to war had they been told there was no immediate threat. Conyers is trying to determine if the allegations of a threat were trumped up or "fixed". He did not once say that this was the case, only that the possibility should be investigated on the basis of new evidence. It is on record that Bush said (while he was still Governor of Texas!) he would go to war with Iraq if he ever got enough "political capital"! Also, the Americans who voted for Bush were not approving of everything that Bush may do as a result of being elected, but rather showing confidence that he would represent them in an honorable manner. Being elected is not carte blanche to run rampant. Our votes are an expression of trust. If we feel that this trust may have been violated, we need to find out. That is what a transparent democracy is all about. We supposedly have a system of checks and balances to prevent absolute power. IMO, going to the UN was a setup, (based on bullshit evidence) to show that "we tried to give him a chance", and to get a new resolution passed. Then, all that remained to be done was to kick the weapons inspectors out of Iraq, and say that Saddam is not cooperating. Bada-bing, bada-boom! The rest is history. If the Bush admin. has nothing to hide, why the cover-up and denial? (oh yeah, hope I passed thirtyhart's spelling bee... "hart" is spelled heart, btw).
 
Before we all start an irrelevant thread on variations of "thirstyhart", the man is possibly sending us some kind of message about his religious commitment by choosing that nickname:

As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.” Psalm 42:1

Not that God has anything to do with the argument we are having here (please, let's all say no and keep the party clean, shall we?).
 
Now there's a man who can see beyond the obvious (and apparently knows something of archaic language). Incidentally, I didn't pick the name specifically for this venue, it's just a name I use often, since it incorporates part of my family name and reminds me of a great song and a great Psalm. On the other hand, it might be a more amusing discussion than what "fixed" means (quick -- what's the citation for "my heart is fixed on thee...").

I would agree that whatever interest God might have in this discussion, bringing his name into it would most likely be counter-productive.

And btw, citizen, sorry if I offended you or anon. I generally only go off on the spelling of people who throw around words like "idiot." You know, "glass houses" and all that.
 
I have read your whole website. Every link. While I'm not well versed,and informed in all things about "The Downing Street Memo" and by that I mean all things that interplay with that, but I am a citizen of these United States. I have read all the posted comments here, and it is very clear this is likened to an exclusive Gentlemans Club. I hope you will humor me, and indulge me. A soapbox I do not want to present to all you fine gentlemen, but I fear that's what this will be. Please forgive that.

Here goes: I am Texas born, and have lived here all my life. That being a negative connotation, because I know the lingo, and jargon on the net. If a person lives in Texas they must be either hick, and stupid, or both, so how could anyone in Texas have a valid opinion? I am one of the lucky ones though. I dodged the bullet, because I'm not a Texan that lives in a tralier. Hence, not trailer trash. As I mentioned earlier I have read this whole website. I have to tell you it only confirmed what I have said all along. I don't have a huge circle of people in my life, but the ones that I do know look at me as if I have lost my mind when I tell them I did not, and never have voted George W. Talk about a stranger in a strange land. Yet, this is my home town. My home state. I have never given my vote of confidence to a man that I do not trust. George Bush JR. I never have. Being as he is my country's executive officer, the man in charge, (and if that isn't scary I don't know what is!) I have to, as a show of decency, be respectful. I do not show respect, but just for the fact of the seat he holds. NOTHING more. I do not know the facts as all of you do, but this information coming to light for me only validated me to the faces of the ones that look at me as if insane for the urging, and I do mean urging, not to vote for this man George W. Bush. As Anon said--It is on record that Bush said (while he was still Governor of Texas!) he would go to war with Iraq if he ever got enough "political capital"! I do not have cable television so that I had never heard.

It does matter what you believe. I have 2 sons. They work, and have wives, and families in these United States. I, as I mentioned, was born here, but I cannot say I do it with much pride anymore.

What I have seen in these last years have shown me the underbelly that I have never seen before. I suspected it,(because where there are human beings there lies the potential of corruption), but I had never seen the things I have since this person has been in office.

Thanks for the fight you have burning for the truth. The truth is our governing forces are as much an integral part of our lives as the water we drink daily. We don't think about either of them consciously, but nevertheless they are ever present in our daily lives. The former of the two mentioned sets rules, and guidelines that they don't live by themselves, but nonetheless they do touch our lives in governing what dreams are realized from the hard work we put forth by our pay. Sad, but true that *our* voices are only heard through corrupt, perverted, watered-down views of the ones that are actually voted in by us..."we the people." Not by me. I never found anyone I thought was on the level enough to TRULY be concerned about the well-being of the lives of my children, and my own, and my dear, husband save Al Gore, and John Kerry!!! What you have brought to light through your website is only a symptom of what TRULY lies within these governing forces.

God Help us all...!!!
 
Touching comments "Tex"... I say that respectfully :)
 
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